www.makemkv.com

I'm over 50 and am interested in what 4k has to offer, but I will not be an enthusiast. I have a decent home projector (Benq x500i), a laptop with a decent graphics card, and a PS4 game console. I throw the projector at a 120" diagonal pull down screen in a room with a high ceiling and lots of windows so it's mostly night viewing for good picture. This projector supports HDR10, HLG, 3D and allows atmos passthrough, eARC.

I really don't know what I'm missing for 4k. I don't have a club or group of friends I can compare to and probably never will. I've downloaded some sample 4k videos just to see what 4k really looks like. When I play a standard def DVD and compare it to standard HD, I can certainly tell the difference on the 120" diagonal. Standard HD is good and it's what I believe I get when I stream from Netflix or Amazon. Can't seem to know for sure with these services if I'm getting HD or 4k (uhd). I know my old ps4 only does HD, but I'm not how great of a image I'm really getting with it.

I have a Polk Audio Signa S4, which supports True 3D Surround Sound (Dolby Atmos 3.1.2 certified). I got this mostly because of the atmos, although I'm not really sure how well it works. Seems to help, or could just be in my head. This soundbar also comes with a little sub woofer. I'm older and find on most setups, I'm always adjusting volume to hear voices and then adjusting down when the action scenes kick in.

Anyway, just trying to give you an idea of my hardware and my minimal commitment to a home theater experience. All that said, I've looked into stand alone 4k players. I could afford a few hundred dollars for a midrange 4k player, but it just doesn't seem worth it just to step up to UHD from HD to watch a handful of 4k titles which of course are more expensive than bluray. I've been buying HD blurays off ebay, mostly. So, a few questions after which I'm very open to any general advice.

When playing 4k dvds, what's an affordable player I can use that hopefully also supports atmos? I don't see making an investment a whole collection of 4k because it's too expensive to buy 4k videos so I'd mostly be using HD bluray dvds. From what I've seen I'm looking at at least 200 for a low end and 400 or a little over for a midrange. I could do 200-250. Might be worth it if is a big step above the PS4 for standard bluray along with the handful of 4k vids I'd like to try, but maybe audio is so so?

The other route is of course ripping 4k to a flash drive. I don't know much about this, but it's my understanding I'd need a 4k drive for my pc (likely external), software to allow the copy (for 4k disks i own), and software to rip. Using your guide and the right flash burn, I could get a drive for $100 or so. It's my understanding I could NOT watch 4k dvds directly from the drive, but I could rip them and then watch from my flash drive or hard drive. File size for a movie might run around 65 GB. I have 2TB flash I could use to hold them. So I think I'm just out the money for the 4k player, the money for (used) 4k dvds, and whatever costs there might be for software, right?

So, I can handle the software and ripping process, flashing firmware, etc. If I rip a 4k dvd, can I do it in a way that will also allow me to have decent sound and hopefully support atmos? That's all I want. I'd be surprised if I ever own more than ten 4k dvd titles, so you can see why the stand alone players don't see worth it for the 4k stuff, although it might be worth it if I can improve a lot over the PS4 I'm now using. At the end of the day I'd have a bluray player for HD bluray and a few 4k titles on my flash.

I don't have the auiovisual pals I used to when I was young, so I'm just trying to get an idea what my options are without much real world experience. If you're read this long post you should have an idea what my hardware is and what I'm looking for. Please advise what you think I should do and correct any wrong notions I have.

Thank you very much for your help and feedback.

In my setup, I run a Plex server and have a streaming box plugged into my TV that runs a Plex client app. In my view, the real benefit of this whole process is a nice couch friendly interface to all my movies and TV shows without forced previews, FBI warnings, or any of those distractions. All the files live on a computer in an out of the way place in my home and come to the TV via the app on the streaming box across my local network.

The convenience of this arrangement justifies the effort in my view. Most of my stuff is standard HD from regular blu-rays. I do have some 4K UHDs (when buying a movie, they're often only a couple of bucks more than the regular blu-ray price) and this setup allows me to rip & watch these as well.

The visual gains from the 4K resolution compared to regular HD resolution are relatively minor; less than the improvement of going to a HD blu-ray from a standard definition DVD. The real improvements from 4K UHDs are the expanded color palette and potentially higher brightness levels. The other big improvement of 4K is the excuse it provides the studios to do a nice remaster of a movie. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) is a great example of this with the remaster being a big visual upgrade.

Minimally, to get started, you'll need an optical drive for ripping. It'll have to support LibreDrive to be able to rip 4K UHDs. Pioneer drives are considered the best, but the current Pioneer firmware is not supported. You have to get a drive with old firmware and the easiest way to do that is from a seller on this forum in your region. LG drives will also work and cost less but are not regarded as highly as the Pioneers. The Ultimate UHD Drives Flashing Guide has a list and instructions on how to flash the drive.
MakeMKV has a very generous try-it-before-you-buy-it policy. The program author generally posts a key to make the program work for a couple of months at a time. It eventually expires and usually after a week or two another key is posted again. We would encourage you to buy it of course, but it is reasonable to try it out before you commit money to it.
Your projector appears to run Android TV so it seems like you could rip a movie into a .mkv file, put it on a USB stick, plug it into the media reader port on the projector and play the file directly.

dcoke22,

Thanks for the reply. You're so right about the convenience of just being able to click and open a movie off a hard/flash drive. I kinda hate the ps4 controller for this.

In factg, I've seen on places like ebay that you can download digital copies and of course sometimes digital copies are sold with bluray physical disks. Can I buy digital copies that, when downloaded, are permanent? I don't want to buy a digital copy and have it expire. That would defeat the purpose of building a collection.

The visual gains from the 4K resolution compared to regular HD resolution are relatively minor; less than the improvement of going to a HD blu-ray from a standard definition DVD.

That's good to know. As mentioned, I haven't had much experience with 4k, although the "2020 LG OLED l The Black 4K HDR" demo video was pretty impressive. Then again, that might have partly been the deep blacks the projector put out. I've been watching TV on LED most of the last couple decades.

So if I do rip to my flash drive, all the HDR10 goodies and audio goodies (like atmos) can be ripped to work just as well as off the DVD? I've read a little about different kinds of ripping, but haven't done it myself. I'm expecting about 60 gigs for a full movie on average or would I need a larger file to get HDR10 and stuff like Atmos?

I'm open to checking out this forum for 4k players, but I also understand the forum offers suggestions about new 4k players I can buy that, with the proper flash bios, might also work. Is there good reason to buy older 4k players from the form instead of new?

EDIT: Okay, I've had a chance to look at the links and I see why this is more complicated than it looks....

Great links. I'm somewhat familiar, but will take a deeper dive. Is it fair to say that any 4k player I get will also rip standard bluray HD? And can you confirm that most of these 4k players that allow me to rip don't necessarily allow me to play 4k?

Any tips on where to find good prices on bluray? I've been to thrift shops and ebay. It's surprising how many times I see used blurays on ebay that are more expensive than the same bluray titles on Amazon.

Thanks for the feedback and those links!

Regarding the "Ultimate UHD Drives Flashing Guide Updated 2024" thread
(easy found by searching the forum)

Just to be overly clear, when it says "PSA now most Pioneers come with new fw that prevents them from be crossflashed or downgraded do not buy one for UHD at this time", the pioneer list below are exceptions that DO work, right? And any one of these just need to be flashed to the proper firmware, but also may additionally need to be flashed to address the Sleep Bug? Likewise, these must all be LibreDrives. Is that about right?

Thanks again.

Pioneer UHD drives are now supported more info about that will be coming from the developer and once the info is out i will update stuff here
this is a work in progress
PSA now most Pioneers come with new fw that prevents them from be crossflashed or downgraded do not buy one for UHD at this time
Pioneer Drives need Firmware from before December 2022 firmware after this does not work do not update if you have a working one more on this in the coming weeks if they can be flashed. if your pioneer UHD drive does not work post your makemkv drive info here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27378

drives that Currently work are:

BDR-XD08UMB-S Slim top load USB Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-XD07UHD Slim top load USB Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-XD06JUHD Slim top load USB Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-S12UHT Internal 5.25 sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-XS07UHD Slim Slot load USB Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-212UBK Internal 5.25 sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-211UBK Internal 5.25 sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-UD04 Slim 9.5mm tray load slim sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-S13U-X Internal 5.25 sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
BDR-S13UBK Internal 5.25 sata Rip speed 4x BD 66 ~1 Hour BD 100 ~1 hour 35mins
please tell me more if you have a pioneer UHD drive and it works i will add it to the list

about drive rip speed
some drives like the BU400N and WP/BP50NB40/BP60NB10 achieve near the same rip speed as desktop drives because they pick up speed faster and hold the 6x top speed longer then the other desktop drives.

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:13 pm

In factg, I've seen on places like ebay that you can download digital copies and of course sometimes digital copies are sold with bluray physical disks. Can I buy digital copies that, when downloaded, are permanent? I don't want to buy a digital copy and have it expire. That would defeat the purpose of building a collection.

Probably every digital copy you can legally buy online is merely licensed, not owned.

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:13 pm

So if I do rip to my flash drive, all the HDR10 goodies and audio goodies (like atmos) can be ripped to work just as well as off the DVD? I've read a little about different kinds of ripping, but haven't done it myself. I'm expecting about 60 gigs for a full movie on average or would I need a larger file to get HDR10 and stuff like Atmos?

60GB is a good rough estimate for the size of a 4K rip with all the fancy video and audio bells and whistles. All that stuff will be in the .mkv file. Different playback software, however, will have different capabilities.

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:13 pm

I'm open to checking out this forum for 4k players, but I also understand the forum offers suggestions about new 4k players I can buy that, with the proper flash bios, might also work. Is there good reason to buy older 4k players from the form instead of new?

EDIT: Okay, I've had a chance to look at the links and I see why this is more complicated than it looks....

Great links. I'm somewhat familiar, but will take a deeper dive. Is it fair to say that any 4k player I get will also rip standard bluray HD? And can you confirm that most of these 4k players that allow me to rip don't necessarily allow me to play 4k?

Any tips on where to find good prices on bluray? I've been to thrift shops and ebay. It's surprising how many times I see used blurays on ebay that are more expensive than the same bluray titles on Amazon.

Thanks for the feedback and those links!

Any optical drive that you get that can rip 4K UHDs can also rip regular blu-rays and DVDs.

If you're in the USA, blu-ray.com has a decent deals page, where they're tracking disc prices on a daily basis. https://www.blu-ray.com/deals/?category=bluray

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:42 pm

Regarding the "Ultimate UHD Drives Flashing Guide Updated 2024" thread
(easy found by searching the forum)

Just to be overly clear, when it says "PSA now most Pioneers come with new fw that prevents them from be crossflashed or downgraded do not buy one for UHD at this time", the pioneer list below are exceptions that DO work, right? And any one of these just need to be flashed to the proper firmware, but also may additionally need to be flashed to address the Sleep Bug? Likewise, these must all be LibreDrives. Is that about right?

Thanks again.

only 1 pioneer works out of the box and thats the UD04/ verbatim 43888
all other need old fw or to be professionally flashed.

if you in the USA i have the newest pioneers with old fw if you want one see below

Billycar11 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 12, 2024 10:11 am

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:42 pm

Regarding the "Ultimate UHD Drives Flashing Guide Updated 2024" thread
(easy found by searching the forum)

Just to be overly clear, when it says "PSA now most Pioneers come with new fw that prevents them from be crossflashed or downgraded do not buy one for UHD at this time", the pioneer list below are exceptions that DO work, right? And any one of these just need to be flashed to the proper firmware, but also may additionally need to be flashed to address the Sleep Bug? Likewise, these must all be LibreDrives. Is that about right?

Thanks again.

only 1 pioneer works out of the box and thats the UD04/ verbatim 43888
all other need old fw or to be professionally flashed.

if you in the USA i have the newest pioneers with old fw if you want one see below

Thanks, I appreciate the reply. Please help me finally clear up the last of my questions.

Okay, thanks for your patience. So to make sure I get it, are all of the following true?
1. ANY Pioneer from your list of Pioneers WILL work so long as it's flashed to the older firmware
2. Once flashed, any of these will RIP 4k or bluray
3. Once flashed, any of these will PLAY 4k or bluray DVDS directly.
4. The flashing process is just software (like flashing your Main Board bios) and does not require additional hardware
5. Some pioneer drives not on your list may also work, but you haven't confirmed it
6. The only extra software I would need to RIP 4k or bluray is MakeMKV.

Q. If 4k and bluray can be played from DVD, is any additional software required?
Q. I see you mention the Sleep Bug. Is this an issue with the pioneer drives you list and does it require a separate flashing to fix?
Q. Of all the Pioneer drives you list, do they all use the same hardware drive, or are certain models better?
Q. Are the drives where you set down the DVD better than ones you insert via a slot?
Q. Are the internal drives better (built) than the external drives (I know I'd need an extra casing for the internal drives)?

After I backup blurays I own, can you recommend software for listing/playing them? My plan was to just do a simple local HTML document with local links and have them open with VLC player.

RobertMoo wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 12, 2024 2:18 pm

Thanks, I appreciate the reply. Please help me finally clear up the last of my questions.

Okay, thanks for your patience. So to make sure I get it, are all of the following true?
1. ANY Pioneer from your list of Pioneers WILL work so long as it's flashed to the older firmware
2. Once flashed, any of these will RIP 4k or bluray
3. Once flashed, any of these will PLAY 4k or bluray DVDS directly.
4. The flashing process is just software (like flashing your Main Board bios) and does not require additional hardware
5. Some pioneer drives not on your list may also work, but you haven't confirmed it
6. The only extra software I would need to RIP 4k or bluray is MakeMKV.

Q. If 4k and bluray can be played from DVD, is any additional software required?
Q. I see you mention the Sleep Bug. Is this an issue with the pioneer drives you list and does it require a separate flashing to fix?
Q. Of all the Pioneer drives you list, do they all use the same hardware drive, or are certain models better?
Q. Are the drives where you set down the DVD better than ones you insert via a slot?
Q. Are the internal drives better (built) than the external drives (I know I'd need an extra casing for the internal drives)?

After I backup blurays I own, can you recommend software for listing/playing them? My plan was to just do a simple local HTML document with local links and have them open with VLC player.

1. Yes any pioneer I sell will work with UHD and has the correct firmware

2/3Yes all my drives rip or play UHD depending on the model it can be official or unofficial official models can do official playback.

5 all the drives I sell work if you get it elsewhere I have no idea there are hundreds or rebrands

6 yes all that's needed is makemkv

The pioneers I sell come with a powerdvd code if you want to use that for playback software.

pioneers do not have the sleep bug that's a LG/Asus thing.

Difference between them is drive build quality quietness and looks in price order.

The tray or slot load are the least likely to damage your discs the snap in type wear out the center of discs eventually

All pioneer drives are pretty reliable but we only desktop drives with old fw left. I ran out of USB pioneers with old fw last September.

You can make them USB with a vantec dx2