Is there any way to see title numbers?

[rmiller67]

When deciding which titles to convert to mkv files, is there any way to see the title numbers? The information that is currently provided is pretty meaningless to me, but title numbers are very useful. If I want to make sure I'm ripping the correct title, I can play the DVD, start viewing the part I want to convert, and then see which title is playing.

I don't understand why something as basic as the title number is missing from the display.

If there is no way to see the title number, could this please be added in a future release?

Thanks!

[Romansh]

Edit: nevermind.

@rmiller67 -> Source title ID

[rmiller67]

Thank you very much for the reply. I had been only using blu-ray DVDs, but I see that for regular DVDs the title number is displayed as you say. For blu-ray DVDs, however, I don't seem to see the title.

With a regular DVD, I get information like this:

Title information
Source title ID: 1
Duration: 1:30:33
Chapters count: 4
Segment count: 3
Segment map: 1-10,11-17,18-24

With a blu-ray DVD, I only see this:

Title information
Source file name: 00001.mpls
Angle: 1
Duration: 1:50:33
Chapters count: 30
Segment count: 31
Segment map: 27,28,0,1,2,5,8,9,12,13,16,18,21,17,33,34,49,37,50,40,51,43,52,46,53,56,54,59,55,62,65

There is a source file name, although I don't think it maps to a title number.

[mike admin]

Thank you very much for the reply. I had been only using blu-ray DVDs, but I see that for regular DVDs the title number is displayed as you say. For blu-ray DVDs, however, I don't seem to see the title.

With a regular DVD, I get information like this:

Title information
Source title ID: 1
Duration: 1:30:33
Chapters count: 4
Segment count: 3
Segment map: 1-10,11-17,18-24

With a blu-ray DVD, I only see this:

Title information
Source file name: 00001.mpls
Angle: 1
Duration: 1:50:33
Chapters count: 30
Segment count: 31
Segment map: 27,28,0,1,2,5,8,9,12,13,16,18,21,17,33,34,49,37,50,40,51,43,52,46,53,56,54,59,55,62,65

There is a source file name, although I don't think it maps to a title number.

In blu-ray there is generally no one-to-one mapping between M2TS and Title number. The closest you have is a playlist file name.

[rmiller67]

Thank you for the response Mike!

I have to admit, though, I'm a little confused.

There may not be a mapping between M2TS files and title numbers, but don't blu-ray DVDs still have a UI where the disk has titles and chapters? When watching a feature movie, isn't the "feature movie" still just a single title with multiple chapters?

The reason that I ask is that some companies (i.e. Disney) likes to make it hard to rip by putting tons of fake titles on their DVDs. I've been ripping regular DVDs using Handbrake, and if there are too many titles, I watch the DVD on my DVD player, and figure out which titles I want.

Maybe this doesn't happen on blu-ray DVDs as much, but I tried to rip Ratatouille and it came up with 6 different choices that were all the length of the entire movie. Four of them were just alternate angles, so I figured I could ignore those but I was still left with two to choose from (one of them was the main title and one ended up being a "cine-explore" version). I definitely didn't want the cine-explore version, but it was not easy to tell the difference between the two. Since it takes almost 2 hours to rip the DVD, the last thing I want to do is to burn multiple versions until I find the right one. With only two to choose from, its not a huge issue, but I've seen regular DVDs with 99 different titles that were all of the same length.

Ron

[Romansh]

For all intents and purposes, the playlists ARE the Blu-ray titles.

[rmiller67]

Thanks for the reply.

I still don't quite understand what the title numbers mean on a blu-ray DVD player and how those map to what is actually on the DVD, although I guess that isn't that important.

However, I guess the real question I have is whether or not there is any way to find the title that you want when there is a large list of titles to chose from. Often you can find the right one by looking at the length, but what if there are multiple titles with the same length?

[setarip_old]

@rmiller67

Often you can find the right one by looking at the length, but what if there are multiple titles with the same length?

This is the latest "game of confusion" being used by some of the studios (Started with the Blu-ray title "Source Code").

To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet devised an automated way to determine which playlist (.MPLS file).

What I was able to do manually with "Source Code", which fortunately only had a few intentionally misleading "lookalike" .MPLS files was to first load each .MPLS file into tsMuxer and determine which .MPLS files had the correct total running time.

Still using tsMuxer, I then examined the composition of each of the .MPLS files that had the correct total running time to see which of them might contain illogical .M2TS files, such as IDENTICAL .M2TS files repeated several times within the .MPLS file repetitions.

If, with just released v.1.6.15, "mike admin" has devised an automated way to accomplish this, it should generate a sigh of relief for those of us who simply wish to make backup copies of our purchased media.

Perhaps "mike admin" can post to let us know whether this has been accomplished?

[SamuriHL]

This is the latest "game of confusion" being used by some of the studios (Started with the Blu-ray title "Source Code").

To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet devised an automated way to determine which playlist (.MPLS file).

I just want to correct a few things here. First, Source Code wasn't the first to use this stupid java protection. It was probably the first one that got a lot of attention. I honestly don't know which title was first, but, the protection has been evolving for many months now.

To the second point, when you say "no one" I take that to mean no company which also isn't accurate. SlySoft has added to the status window of AnyDVD HD the "likely correct" MPLS for movies that use this java protection. For Source Code it lists the correct playlists. So there must be a way to automatically determine the correct ones...or at least narrow it down a bit. I don't know how they're doing that but it is being done and is highly useful.

[setarip_old]

I don't know how they're doing that...

Then don't say,

I just want to correct a few things here.

Since you acknowledge that you DON'T know what your associates at Slysoft are doing, you are merely SPECULATING that "Peer" and associates have presently done anything more than what I've described.

So again, I would say, to the best of my knowledge, no one has yet devised an automated way to determine which playlist (.MPLS file).

And again, perhaps "mike admin" (and now I'd add "Peer") can post to let us know (in general terms) whether this has been accomplished?


More important than the present status of this concept is where one can anticipate it's leading to - Multiple (perhaps dozens) of .MPLS files, containing most of the legitimate .M2TS files plus many custom made dummy .M2TS files of varying durations, so that every one of these many .MPLS files equals the PRECISE actual running time.

[SamuriHL]

Since you acknowledge that you DON'T know what your buddies at Slysoft are doing, you are merely SPECULATING that "Peer" and associates have presently done anything more than what I've described.

So again, I would say, to the best of my knowledge, no one has yet devised an automated way to determine which playlist (.MPLS file).

*SIGH*

Ok, you can call it "speculating" if you wish. I can tell you for a fact they're not just matching up the length of the MPLS with the movie length *because that doesn't work*. Peer has said on older titles that implement the java protection, they simply rearranged parts of the movie so the fake MPLS' have the EXACT SAME LENGTH. I can tell you they are somehow scanning for the correct MPLS...I simply don't know the DETAILS of how they are doing so. It has also been said by Peer that it's possible for AnyDVD to get it wrong in some cases. So far on all the titles that currently have this java protection, it seems to be getting it right. In any case, I don't wish to debate. I was merely pointing out that SlySoft has added functionality to display the correct MPLS on titles that have this protection. Hopefully MakeMKV can add something similar. If you remember, Mike did add a feature to see what segments are in the MPLS which helps to detect repeated m2ts files within the MPLS....a good indication that it's likely fake. But if all they do is change the order, then all of the current known "manual" methods for detection other than playing each MPLS fail....yet AnyDVD handles those. Just something to consider.

[setarip_old]

*SIGH* right back at 'ya ;>}

I can tell you they are somehow scanning for the correct MPLS...I simply don't know the DETAILS of how they are doing so. It has also been said by Peer that it's possible for AnyDVD to get it wrong in some cases.

(Sounds like "AI" and "PathPlayer" all over again) You're repeating yourself - and, as they say, "The Devil's in the details".

Since you again acknowledge that you DON'T KNOW what's being done (I notice you DON'T make any reference to "automated process"), I'd suggest to you that the simplest possibility is the visual scanning that I described I used with "Source Code".

BTW - There's room for even more "fun" when the coding is used (I forget if it's within the .MPLS files or the .CLPI files) to alter the sequence of the audiostreams...

[SamuriHL]

I'd suggest to you that the simplest possibility is the visual scanning that I described I used with "Source Code".

Now who's speculating...In any case, I'm not going to debate this further. I'm not sure what you mean by "automated"....you put the disc in, AnyDVD scans it, and tells you what playlists are valid in the status window. It's not getting that information from a database. It's not checking the length against some known length. Programmatically, they are determining the valid playlists. But, anyway, you don't seem willing to accept that so we can just move along. Since this is the MakeMKV forum, we can only hope that Mike has a plan to implement some mechanism for determining the non-fake playlists in MakeMKV. In the meantime, I'll simply check my AnyDVD status window when I run into this protection and use that to know which MPLS to use in MakeMKV.

[SamuriHL]

P.S. MakeMKV 1.6.15 does not seem to do anything different with Source Code U.S. than previous versions. The fake titlesets are still added. That's with AnyDVD disabled.

[setarip_old]

No speculation whatsoever - I've stated factually what I did regarding "Source Code". And certainly nothing could be simpler than visual interpretation ;>}

(It's curious, if nothing else, that with each additional post to this thread, you seem to be adding more specifics of the methodology that you initially stated you knew nothing about)

Well, I definitely agree with you on one point - further debate is pointless...

It wouldn't surprise me if "fengtao" will be the one to come up with the next significant method of overcoming future iterations of this type of protection ;>}