REMUX Bitrates Vary On Different Rips Of The Same Movie?

[razmspiele]

I've been going down the rabbit hole trying to understand bitrates in UHD REMUXES and I can't seem to find any clear info on why there are so many different bitrates for the same REMUX'd movie when looking at MediaInfo. I looked at 3 different rips of the same movie and all three had different bitrates. How is this possible if REMUXEs are just direct rips of the UHD Bluray? One example is John Wick Chapter 3 Parabellum. According to Blu-Ray.com the official disc's bitrate for this movie is 63.15 Mb/s. The top one posted below shows 70.8 Mb/s, the second one matches what Blu-Ray.com lists at 63.2 Mb/s and the third rip shows 82.5 Mb/s. What's going on here? Are the other two just inflating bitrates with no benefit to the picture quality?

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Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 69.0 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 10 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 75.6 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Movie name                               : John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum (2019)
Encoded date                             : 2021-08-10 15:23:25 UTC
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v60.0.0 ('Are We Copies?') 64-bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.4.2 + libmatroska v1.6.4
IMDB                                     : tt6146586
TMDB                                     : movie/458156

Video
ID                                       : 1
ID in the original source medium         : 4113 (0x1011)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, BL+EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 2 h 10 min
Bit rate                                 : 70.8 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.356
Stream size                              : 64.7 GiB (94%)
Title                                    : MPEG-H HEVC Video / 7625 + 63154 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / Dolby Vision + HDR10 / BT.2020
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0010 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 358 cd/m2
Original source medium                   : Blu-ray

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Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 62.1 GiB
Duration                                 : 2 h 10 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 68.0 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Movie name                               : John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum 4K
Encoded date                             : 2019-09-01 10:47:41 UTC
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v37.0.0 ('Leave It') 64-bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.9 + libmatroska v1.5.2

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 2 h 10 min
Bit rate                                 : 63.2 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.318
Stream size                              : 57.7 GiB (93%)
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0010 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 358 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Codec ID                                 : A_TRUEHD
Duration                                 : 2 h 10 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 012 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 6 327 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 1 200.000 FPS (40 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 3.66 GiB (6%)
Title                                    : TrueHD Atmos 7.1
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Number of dynamic objects                : 15
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE

Code: Select all

John.Wick.Chapter.3.Parabellum.2019.Hybrid.2160p.UHD.BluRay.REMUX.DV.HDR10+.HEVC.TrueHD.7.1.Atmos-DataLass


GENERAL INFO
SOURCE                  : UHD Blu-ray Disc (MiXER) (Thanks!)
                        : UHD REMUX (FraMeSToR) (Thanks!)
                        : UHD HDR10+ WEB-DL (????) (Thanks!)
FORMAT                  : MKV (Matroska)
SIZE                    : 80.9 GiB
OVERALL BITRATE         : 88.3 Mbps
DURATION                : 02:11:07 (h:m:s)
CHAPTERS                : Numbered (01-13)
GENRE                   : Action, Crime, Thriller
IMDB                    : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6146586/
IMDB Rating             : 7.4 / 10
DIRECTOR                : Chad Stahelski
CAST                    : Keanu Reeves, Halle Berry, Ian McShane, Laurence Fishburne, Mark Dacascos, Asia Kate Dillon

VIDEO
CODEC                   : HEVC
TYPE                    : 2160p
FRAME RATE              : 23.976 fps
DISPLAY ASPECT RATIO    : 16:9
FORMAT PROFILE LEVEL    : Main 10@L5.1@High
STREAM SIZE             : 75.3 GiB
BITRATE                 : 82.5 Mbps
WIDTH x HEIGHT          : 3840 x 2160 pixels
COLOR PRIMARIES         : BT.2020
HDR VERSION             : Dolby Vision 07.06, HDR10+
TITLE                   : MPEG-H HEVC Video / 69518 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 10 bits / HDR10+ Profile B / BT.2020 / Dolby Vision FEL @ 12944 kbps

[dcoke22]

The first one looks like DV (profile 7) & HDR10 and is probably a rip from the UHD.

The second one looks like just HDR10, no DV.

The third one looks like DV (profile 5) & HDR10+ and is probably a web download as the name suggests.


Ultimately, you could buy your own disc, make a rip and not worry about it. Stealing is bad, right?

[razmspiele]

My question is not about piracy, but rather to understand how bitrates work with REMUXs using MakeMKV. How does the inclusion or lack of DV, HDR10+, and standard HDR affect the video bitrates in the final output? I would assume that the bitrates would not vary since the source video is being ripped 1:1 from a Blu-Ray disc.

[dcoke22]

It doesn't look like any of your 3 examples are written using MakeMKV. The first two state they were written by (different versions of) mkvmerge. And the third doesn't say, but it doesn't look like a straight rip of a disc from MakeMKV.

All three have different HDR schemes present in them. The various HDR schemes are present in the video stream and they take up varying amounts of space. The difference in video stream sizes is most likely attributable to the difference in the various HDR schemes present in those files (although the 3rd example claims to be about 1 minute longer than the other two, so part of its difference might be attributed to the longer runtime). The video stream bitrate is probably just the runtime divided by the video stream size.

I would guess the base, non-HDR 4K video portion is the same in all three examples. Based on your preferences and capabilities of your home theater you can choose the version with the HDR scheme that's best for you and perhaps save a bit of space by doing so.

[usernameworker]

1st REMUX -> 4K Blu-Ray REMUX. DV Profile 7 + HDR10 Base Layer. Both Base HDR10 Layer and DV P7 Layer (Enhancement Layer) have slightly lower bitrates comparatively, but still good quality wise.

2nd REMUX -> 4K Blu-ray REMUX. Only HDR10 Base Layer. No HDR10+ or Dolby Vision or any other sort of Dynamic Metadata for color. Just plain old HDR REMUX. Has 63.2 Mb/s bitrate, good quality but worst of all three.

3rd REMUX -> 4K BluRay REMUX. Same as first one. DV Profile 7 + HDR10 Base Layer. But this time, Both Base Layer HDR10 and DV P7 Layer (Enhancement Layer) have slightly higher bitrates comparatively. Very good quality. Highest Video Bitrates comparatively. Best of these 3 REMUXES. Also Contains HDR10+ Dynamic Metadata from a WEB-DL Source as a fall back to Displays which don't support Dolby Vision but supports HDR10+.


The first comment by dcoke22 is not right. I suggest users to disregard that comment made by them.


How do I know all this?
Because I am also a REMUXer and I also have talked with DataLass, the person who remuxed the 3rd REMUX in this table. I won't reveal my group name tho, it might affect my torrents if things go bad.